Warning

[gangrel_pri]

Some of what I may say behind the cut may be offensive to some readers. You have been warned.

First a test, stolen from joshuapanther, who stole it from grimkitten, who stole it from demonfafa.

1. Where were you when you heard about the attacks on the pentagon and WTC?

Well, I had just been woken up by our phone ringing off the hook. I checked my v-mail, and everyone I knew had called to tell me to turn on the TV. This was around 11:30ish.

2. What country or group did you suspect immediately?

I was half awake, and my first thought was pissed off architecture critics. I mean, avoiding all the other issues here, the WTC and the Sears tower are/were some of the ugliest things ever erected.

3. Who were you with?
At first, just me. I woke up my roommate. Then I went in foir my first day of work at my current job.

4. Who did you call first?

I returned mom's call.

5. What did you do the rest of the day?

I worked, then I came home and tried very hard not to think about the aftermath.

6. Did you have any friends or family killed in the attacks?

No.

7. Do you think 9-11 should be a holiday?

If they ever do make it a holiday, I assume it will become like most of the other military holidays in a few years. Remembered by a few, and an excuse to buy discounted crap at your local Sears store.

8. Do you think even a % of the money donated really made it to the families?

A small % maybe.

9. Have you been to Ground Zero?

Not since it became ground zero.

***

I still disagree with people who tell me that vengence is all-important. We are a country founded on the principles of justice, not vengence. I find it rude that we claim to be trying to institue democracy in in the countries we're overrunning, and yet we do not offer their citizens the same rights we take for granted in our own lives.
My mother, G-d fearing conservative that she is, called and bitched that we aren't praying for the terrorist's families, since they too died. Funny that my mother of all people has the sentiment that no death should be unmourned. I still have yet to figure out why invading Iraq is all important. For that matter, I'm still wondering why my friend Trent came back from the desert only to become a homeless looney unloved by anyone, and told by the Vet hospital that there was no such thing as Gulf War syndrome.
I will not defend the actions taken by those to create terror and unrest in any country, particularly ours. But I also wonder how many others realized why the WTC was attacked rather than Lady Liberty. I really believe it was less of an attack on America, than an attack on Capitalism, and exploiting everything for personal gain.
Many people died, and many more were hurt. And everyone found a way to relate to it. And some people even found ways to tie it in to their political beliefs to try and use it for more fodder. As goddamndunce said earlier, "Quit pimping the dead".
And I also can't help but feel that some people have used this as a chance to play stage magician, using this as a distraction while they pull some slight-of-hand manuvers while everyone is looking elsewhere. Why look at our domestic problems when we should obviouysly be looking overseas at how bad and evil everyone else is? Or the attitude of "Well, they attacked us, let's shop and show them how great we are." Huh?

Dammit, I keep breaking my promise of not saying anything, since I'd like to believe that most of the stuff is coming from people mourning. I just wish we could mourn for the dead, rather than for two ugly skyscrapers and an idea that will never die.

Comments

[sarya.livejournal.com]

<<< As goddamndunce said earlier, "Quit pimping the dead".
And I also can't help but feel that some people have used this as a chance to play stage magician, using this as a distraction while they pull some slight-of-hand manuvers while everyone is looking elsewhere. >>>>

so well said by the both of you!!

1. Where were you when you heard about the attacks on the pentagon and WTC?

Working at my computer after a sleepless night trying to beat a deadline for my editor

2. What country or group did you suspect immediately?

Actually i had thought it was (when the first plane hit ) an accidental thing like aplane out of control ... ( when the second plane hit ) I thought it was maybe someone here protesting the illegal elections

3. Who were you with?

I was here alone with the kids gone to school and Joe teaching in London

4. Who did you call first ?

My husband Joe in the UK ..actually we called each other about the same time

5. What did you do the rest of the day?

Waited to get my kids home safe and watched the news to see if more attacks would happen then went to sleep

6. Did you have any friends or family killed in the attacks?

My little brother was in the south tower but when the plane hit the other tower he was smart and despite being told to go back to his deak he went out to smoke a cigerette and is fine .

7. Do you think 9-11 should be a holiday?

No not at all

8. Do you think even a % of the money donated really made it to the families?

Some will but a lot of it will get convenietly lost im sure

9. Have you been to Ground Zero?
No but i went to NY about 20 years ago and saw it then

Re:

[gangrel-pri.livejournal.com]

Ya know, I realized as I read #4 that is one of the few things that just about everyone had in common last year, and perhaps one of the few things left than can make even me cry. I honestly think that was one of the good things that came out of it. For a few hours or days (until the shock wore off) I honestly feel we as a people came together in the manner of a family at a funeral. We all called each other, we checked up to make sure everyone we knew was ok. It's probably a bad thing that it took 3,000+ deaths to do it, but it, like Challenger (the last thing I remember that evoked such emotion), did for a short period in time, what nothing else can do, which is give perspective to just about everyone.

[http://users.livejournal.com/grimkitten_/]

Yes, we were all really good to each other for a short while. I remember that driving on the busy streets of St. Pete that no one honked their horn at another person or had road rage or flipped anyone the bird. Walking into a store or fast food joint people looked at other people with love and kindness in their hearts, you could see it. We were all united as one for a few months, we loved one another. That was the beautiful thing that came out of it. Too bad nothing lasts forever.

Re:

[gangrel-pri.livejournal.com]

*chuckles* There's that ray of darkness I love so much.

I don't mean to sound so flippant. I think TV got to me today. In all honesty, it reminded me of my first time around the AIDS quilt. It was overpowering to witness the first time, and while we were there, all the walls between people came down. United in sadness I guess. It wasn't until later that the changes became obvious. I remember getting so mad at Lambda's current president at the time because He couldn't understand why people weren't MAD when they left. See, for me, the entire Quilt was a way to remember the dead.
I'm rambling, pardon me.

[gothic-oreo.livejournal.com]

I didn't call anybody

Re:

[gangrel-pri.livejournal.com]

Well, aren't you special.:)

Besides, I think your mom called here.

[kylewallace.livejournal.com]

Sadom has vowed in the past to wipe Israel off the face of the globe, and I'm a firm believer that he is near having a weapon that can do it. If he is not stopped now who can say what this madman is capable of. If we had paid attention to Hitler before the war, perhaps we would have had none. Sadom must go, and his people will rejoice afterwards.

Re:

[gangrel-pri.livejournal.com]

Once again, we're discussing a dangerous precedent for world politics. It would be much easier if the people in the area themselves revolted, rather than making the Western Nations look like global bullies.

Ditto

[culturalvacuum.livejournal.com]

I'm with you James. There are so many nasty, unpleasant governments in the world, governments that have done awful things to their own people, made threatening gestures towards their neighbors, and the like. We can't set ourselves up as the ultimate authority on what governments the nations of the world will have. Hell, the sins we're so het up about on the part of the "supporters of terrorism" are things that the United States itself was guilty of just 15 or so years ago (contras in Nicaragua, UNITA in Angola, etc.), did that give some other country the right to step in and bomb us and kill Ronald Reagan?

Saddam Hussein is an evil, oppressive megalomaniac but planning to go to war, bomb the shit out of his country, and cause untold chaos and death just to get him out of power is indefensible. Hell, his grip on power wouldn't be nearly as secure if he hadn't been our buddy all through the 70s and 80s.

Re: Ditto

[gothic-oreo.livejournal.com]

And don't forget that 15 years ago Sadaam was gleefylly gassing the hell out of Iranians and Kurds, with the full blessing of the US government, which he had till the day he went waltzing into Kuwait.

Re: Ditto

[gangrel-pri.livejournal.com]

Saddam Hussein is an evil, oppressive megalomaniac but planning to go to war, bomb the shit out of his country, and cause untold chaos and death just to get him out of power is indefensible. Hell, his grip on power wouldn't be nearly as secure if he hadn't been our buddy all through the 70s and 80s.

I vaguely remember that. I was very yound during the wra between Iraq and Iran, so I only have brief memories of Ollie North. What I really remember was the "tiff" we had with Lybia. I still have yet to figure out what started that one.

Re: Ditto

[culturalvacuum.livejournal.com]

I was actually living in the Middle East when we bombed Libya (on a student exchange year in Amman, Jordan) so I remember it VIVIDLY. There were two primary reasons we did it. Reason one was the Libyan-backed bombing of a disco in what was then West Germany, one of many acts that were (fairly conclusively) traced back to Qaddhafi's government. Reason two was that Qaddhafi had announced that a certain area off the Libyan coast (the Gulf of Sidre, IIRC) was Libyan territorial waters even though it was more than 15 miles off shore (the international standard). The United States used this as a convenient way to get Libya to attack them FIRST, by frequently sending military ships and plains across the "line" that Qaddhafi had drawn until they finally sent planes to try to attack. According to a military officer attached to the US embassy in Amman that I knew at the time, the primary mission of that bombing raid was to destroy terrorist training camps in the deserts outside Tripoli. I think they went overboard by dropping bombs into the diplomatic quarters of the city (hitting the French embassy and killing one of Qaddhafi's kids, among other things), but I'm not sure that hitting the camps was such an awful idea.

Re: Ditto

[gangrel-pri.livejournal.com]

That makes a hell of a lot more sense now. See, I was in 4th grade I think, and the most I could figure out was that something scary was going on and my big brother was convinced Wright Patt was going to get nuked and we all were going to die.

[gothic-oreo.livejournal.com]

And Isreal has weapons that could wipe Sadaam off of the face of the earth already, and his people are the only people that will truly suffer if we go in there, as they have been suffering for the past 11 years.

Re:

[kylewallace.livejournal.com]

People suffer when they don't choose people wisely to lead them. It has been said that people get the governments they deserve, which I believe. If you run around chanting slogans of praise for leaders that lead you down the path of destruction who can you blame but yourself? They certaily have nothing to fear of Israel if they don't provoke it.

[gothic-oreo.livejournal.com]

People suffer when they don't choose people wisely to lead them. It has
been said that people get the governments they deserve, which I believe.

Sadaam was put into power in a CIA backed coup, much like the Shah of Iran. When the Iraqi people tried to overthrow him just after the Persian Gulf War, Bush Sr. left them twisting in the wind, and they were easily defeated by Sadaam's forces.

You may remove your foot now, learn a bit about issues before you shoot off your mouth about them

Re:

[kylewallace.livejournal.com]

HehHeh oh wise one! I will from now on confer with you before developing an opinion.:-)

[gothic-oreo.livejournal.com]

Eh, that did come across as quite high-and-mighty, I apologize, I just read the trans cript of Bush's speech to the UN, and am not in the best of moods.

Lies and damned lies.

Seriously though, Sadaam is only a threat to his own people at present, Iraq is in shambles, and even if they DID have the means to make WMD, it would be years before they had any.

There are other ways to deal with him bresides pissing off every ally we have (Except Isreal) and giving him more than ample opportunity to make other Middle-Eastern nations sympathetic to his cause.

Check out sos_usa for just the tip of the iceberg.

Re:

[kylewallace.livejournal.com]

Well, it is just my opinion that if he has the possibility of having weapons of mass distruction, and most experts believe it is much sooner than you think, now is the time to rid him of it.His people will not, or can not rid themselves of him, so that is where I draw my conclusion. By the way, we all get high and mighty once in a while.;-)

[kylewallace.livejournal.com]

As you can see, I'm not an English major. "it is they" lol

[kylewallace.livejournal.com]

When I say "most experts", of course I'm refering to American experts, but then again, it is they who I must trust.

[gothic-oreo.livejournal.com]

You don't HAVE to

And look at waht the American Republican UN Weapons inspectors are saying about his capabilities.

In short, What capability?

Re:

[kylewallace.livejournal.com]

How do they know? Did he allow them to inspect? As far as the UN, they couldn't get him to let their men in to look around. Isn't that what the bitching is all about?

[gothic-oreo.livejournal.com]

Amen